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	<title>Comments on: Police brutalize Anti-Police Brutality Demo &#8211; again!</title>
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	<link>http://www.optative.net/blog/2009/03/16/police-brutalize-anti-police-brutality-demonstration-again/</link>
	<description>The official blog of Optative Theatrical Laboratories</description>
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		<title>By: OTL Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Happy May Day!</title>
		<link>http://www.optative.net/blog/2009/03/16/police-brutalize-anti-police-brutality-demonstration-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1883</link>
		<dc:creator>OTL Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Happy May Day!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 17:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.optative.net/blog/?p=574#comment-1883</guid>
		<description>[...] year’s march happens in the shadow of that event and also just a few months after the anti-police brutality march which ended, unfortunately, in police brutality and rioting.  Nonetheless, the march will begin [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] year’s march happens in the shadow of that event and also just a few months after the anti-police brutality march which ended, unfortunately, in police brutality and rioting.  Nonetheless, the march will begin [...]</p>
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		<title>By: OTL Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Newsflash: Montreal cops now to dress like cops</title>
		<link>http://www.optative.net/blog/2009/03/16/police-brutalize-anti-police-brutality-demonstration-again/comment-page-1/#comment-810</link>
		<dc:creator>OTL Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Newsflash: Montreal cops now to dress like cops</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.optative.net/blog/?p=574#comment-810</guid>
		<description>[...] the pants out for pajamas since July.  This even became a contentious issue before the recent anti-police brutality march as many felt the military look could provoke violence.  Turns out the extra provocation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the pants out for pajamas since July.  This even became a contentious issue before the recent anti-police brutality march as many felt the military look could provoke violence.  Turns out the extra provocation [...]</p>
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		<title>By: OTL Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Irish culture at risk! Montreal’s St. Patrick’s Day Parade co-opted by military and corporate interests…</title>
		<link>http://www.optative.net/blog/2009/03/16/police-brutalize-anti-police-brutality-demonstration-again/comment-page-1/#comment-466</link>
		<dc:creator>OTL Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Irish culture at risk! Montreal’s St. Patrick’s Day Parade co-opted by military and corporate interests…</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.optative.net/blog/?p=574#comment-466</guid>
		<description>[...] the parade, police became more heavy-handed than usual. After arresting 221 people last Sunday, the Montreal police warned parade-goers against celebrating too heartily with a posting [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the parade, police became more heavy-handed than usual. After arresting 221 people last Sunday, the Montreal police warned parade-goers against celebrating too heartily with a posting [...]</p>
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		<title>By: TheMontrealGuy</title>
		<link>http://www.optative.net/blog/2009/03/16/police-brutalize-anti-police-brutality-demonstration-again/comment-page-1/#comment-425</link>
		<dc:creator>TheMontrealGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 03:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.optative.net/blog/?p=574#comment-425</guid>
		<description>Sholom Hoffman, you might be exaggerating a little. Anywhere in the world police would block streets during demonstrations like this one in order to prevent them from blocking the traffic and other reasons. This might be good or bad, who knows. But it has nothing to do with any intentions to turn the place into a police state. Don&#039;t try to create conflicts in your mind just so that you have something to complain about. Your behaviour is way too common among the middle class population in most developed countries, it has become a stereotype and it is taken seriously by almost nobody.

Again please don&#039;t trivialize the real meaning of the protest by taking everything to the extreme. Nobody will take us seriously if we keep talking just like the sensationalist media we dislike so much.

jc, I know the police provoked people, but they didn&#039;t provoke them to break store or car windows, that makes no sense. I was there and I saw them aim at the windows, it was not a mistake. If those kids had not done that, if the confrontation had been only between police and marchers, believe me, the media would be focused on the protest and not on them. My point is that we need to do something about them, we need to get and talk to them somehow or otherwise the message of the march will never be spread. In fact, I am sure the number of people on our side has decreased thanks to what they did. That is what I mean by trivializing our message, and I am sure we all agree on that.

I agree with almost everything you say. I did see some police attacking marchers for no reason. I know there is police brutality here (not as much as in almost any other North American city, but there is!) and that&#039;s why I was in the march (some reasons are more personal but I won&#039;t get into that). I do not agree however, with the idea that our side should ignore the kids who just want to destroy the city we love so much, and don&#039;t care at all about the meaning of the protest. They are our enemies as much as those who are opposed to the protest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sholom Hoffman, you might be exaggerating a little. Anywhere in the world police would block streets during demonstrations like this one in order to prevent them from blocking the traffic and other reasons. This might be good or bad, who knows. But it has nothing to do with any intentions to turn the place into a police state. Don&#8217;t try to create conflicts in your mind just so that you have something to complain about. Your behaviour is way too common among the middle class population in most developed countries, it has become a stereotype and it is taken seriously by almost nobody.</p>
<p>Again please don&#8217;t trivialize the real meaning of the protest by taking everything to the extreme. Nobody will take us seriously if we keep talking just like the sensationalist media we dislike so much.</p>
<p>jc, I know the police provoked people, but they didn&#8217;t provoke them to break store or car windows, that makes no sense. I was there and I saw them aim at the windows, it was not a mistake. If those kids had not done that, if the confrontation had been only between police and marchers, believe me, the media would be focused on the protest and not on them. My point is that we need to do something about them, we need to get and talk to them somehow or otherwise the message of the march will never be spread. In fact, I am sure the number of people on our side has decreased thanks to what they did. That is what I mean by trivializing our message, and I am sure we all agree on that.</p>
<p>I agree with almost everything you say. I did see some police attacking marchers for no reason. I know there is police brutality here (not as much as in almost any other North American city, but there is!) and that&#8217;s why I was in the march (some reasons are more personal but I won&#8217;t get into that). I do not agree however, with the idea that our side should ignore the kids who just want to destroy the city we love so much, and don&#8217;t care at all about the meaning of the protest. They are our enemies as much as those who are opposed to the protest.</p>
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		<title>By: Sholom Hoffman</title>
		<link>http://www.optative.net/blog/2009/03/16/police-brutalize-anti-police-brutality-demonstration-again/comment-page-1/#comment-416</link>
		<dc:creator>Sholom Hoffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 01:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.optative.net/blog/?p=574#comment-416</guid>
		<description>They even blocked people from entering certain roads as was reported in the Gazette. Blocking the people from walking in certain streets is against our freedoms as citizens as well as it shows the police and government&#039;s desire to turn this place into a police state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They even blocked people from entering certain roads as was reported in the Gazette. Blocking the people from walking in certain streets is against our freedoms as citizens as well as it shows the police and government&#8217;s desire to turn this place into a police state.</p>
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		<title>By: jc</title>
		<link>http://www.optative.net/blog/2009/03/16/police-brutalize-anti-police-brutality-demonstration-again/comment-page-1/#comment-413</link>
		<dc:creator>jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.optative.net/blog/?p=574#comment-413</guid>
		<description>To &quot;Montreal Guy&quot;: I think, while not reported here as such, the &quot;moronic destruction&quot; you refer to hasn&#039;t been ignored.  In fact, if you look at CTV, The Gazette or any of the other media that covered this event, you&#039;ll see that destruction of property and the supposed bad behavior of the protesters is all they could talk about.  CTV even had a poll up asking viewers if they thought the city should even issue a permit for the protest next year.  There&#039;s a big difference between &quot;intervening&quot; as you suggest and provoking, which is what the police did.  This is something that has been ignored by all corporate media and apparently by you, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To &#8220;Montreal Guy&#8221;: I think, while not reported here as such, the &#8220;moronic destruction&#8221; you refer to hasn&#8217;t been ignored.  In fact, if you look at CTV, The Gazette or any of the other media that covered this event, you&#8217;ll see that destruction of property and the supposed bad behavior of the protesters is all they could talk about.  CTV even had a poll up asking viewers if they thought the city should even issue a permit for the protest next year.  There&#8217;s a big difference between &#8220;intervening&#8221; as you suggest and provoking, which is what the police did.  This is something that has been ignored by all corporate media and apparently by you, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Sholom Hoffman</title>
		<link>http://www.optative.net/blog/2009/03/16/police-brutalize-anti-police-brutality-demonstration-again/comment-page-1/#comment-405</link>
		<dc:creator>Sholom Hoffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 03:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.optative.net/blog/?p=574#comment-405</guid>
		<description>I give all those present credit for standing out against tyranny. For it is the people, not the police, who own the streets and it is our right to march the streets whenever we have cause to do it. We must fight such a dictatorial regime that want to silence the people, and stand up for our freedoms. Your article also demonstrates the fact that such a war against police brutality does not end with this protest but must be resisted at all moments. We must not only reclaim the streets but reclaim our freedom from police/military takeover. thank you once again Donovan for again providing an accurate picture of the demonstration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I give all those present credit for standing out against tyranny. For it is the people, not the police, who own the streets and it is our right to march the streets whenever we have cause to do it. We must fight such a dictatorial regime that want to silence the people, and stand up for our freedoms. Your article also demonstrates the fact that such a war against police brutality does not end with this protest but must be resisted at all moments. We must not only reclaim the streets but reclaim our freedom from police/military takeover. thank you once again Donovan for again providing an accurate picture of the demonstration.</p>
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		<title>By: TheMontrealGuy</title>
		<link>http://www.optative.net/blog/2009/03/16/police-brutalize-anti-police-brutality-demonstration-again/comment-page-1/#comment-404</link>
		<dc:creator>TheMontrealGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 23:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.optative.net/blog/?p=574#comment-404</guid>
		<description>By the way, I don&#039;t want to judge by appearances, but it seemed to me that those were the same kids who made a riot a few years ago because the band they were waiting for couldn&#039;t show up. I tell you, hooligans are only making the march seem trivial and contradictory, and eventually the organizers will have to do or say something about it. I hope they do, and until then, I will not take part in any other march of this nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, I don&#8217;t want to judge by appearances, but it seemed to me that those were the same kids who made a riot a few years ago because the band they were waiting for couldn&#8217;t show up. I tell you, hooligans are only making the march seem trivial and contradictory, and eventually the organizers will have to do or say something about it. I hope they do, and until then, I will not take part in any other march of this nature.</p>
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		<title>By: TheMontrealGuy</title>
		<link>http://www.optative.net/blog/2009/03/16/police-brutalize-anti-police-brutality-demonstration-again/comment-page-1/#comment-403</link>
		<dc:creator>TheMontrealGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 23:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.optative.net/blog/?p=574#comment-403</guid>
		<description>So you think if the police had not intervened, the violent guys would not have destroyed the Dourmez Vous, UQAM, Ben&#039;s, and cars windows? I&#039;d say it&#039;s not related at all. If someone is willing to destroy something that has NOTHING to do with the demonstration, then he will do it regardless of the police presence. I am against police brutality AND moronic destruction. I wish you had talked about the latter in here. I wish you would admit that the chaos during the march was not only the police&#039;s fault but also the responsibility of some kids who believe random destruction will do anything good for this cause. I was there and I know these are just a few kids and by no means were supported by the marchers. I am just pointing out something that for some strange reason you failed to point out. I do it for the benefit of the reader. Thanks for your article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you think if the police had not intervened, the violent guys would not have destroyed the Dourmez Vous, UQAM, Ben&#8217;s, and cars windows? I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s not related at all. If someone is willing to destroy something that has NOTHING to do with the demonstration, then he will do it regardless of the police presence. I am against police brutality AND moronic destruction. I wish you had talked about the latter in here. I wish you would admit that the chaos during the march was not only the police&#8217;s fault but also the responsibility of some kids who believe random destruction will do anything good for this cause. I was there and I know these are just a few kids and by no means were supported by the marchers. I am just pointing out something that for some strange reason you failed to point out. I do it for the benefit of the reader. Thanks for your article.</p>
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		<title>By: king</title>
		<link>http://www.optative.net/blog/2009/03/16/police-brutalize-anti-police-brutality-demonstration-again/comment-page-1/#comment-393</link>
		<dc:creator>king</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.optative.net/blog/?p=574#comment-393</guid>
		<description>I do not appreciate any insinuation that a &quot;lie&quot; is at work here regarding police weaponry. Not only did I personally witness the gas-attack, but the Direct Impact shell is a well-documented police weapon that activists do not have access to:

The 40MM Direct Impact round is a “point of aim, point of impact” direct fire round that is most commonly used by tactical teams in situations where maximum deliverable energy is desired for the incapacitation of an aggressive, non-compliant subject.

The Direct Impact round is intended for direct fire deployment. The operator should be adequately trained in the use of Specialty Impact Munitions and have a thorough understanding of the round and considerations for selecting shot placement such as level of threat, target distance, size, and clothing.

The Direct Impact round will prove most successful for incapacitation when used within its optimal energy range of approximately 10-75 feet, although it may be used in situations from 5 to 120 feet. The optimal zone offers the necessary energy and accuracy to target the large muscle groups of the buttocks, thigh, and even the knees of the subject. These areas provide sufficient pain stimulus, while greatly reducing serious or life threatening injuries. However, the size and weight of this round makes it the safest of all choices for engaging the abdomen or upper torso of the subject.

The Direct Impact round can also deployed in crowd control situations to protect the riot line, cover or enhance chemical munitions, or targeting specific agitators and organizers of the crowd. When used in this fashion, it is primarily both a psychological deterrent and physiological distraction serving as a pain compliance device to either get the crowd (or subject) moving or keeping them at a designated distance.

Source: http://minnesotaindependent.com/7923/crowd-control-at-the-rnc-fifty-million-unanswered-questions 

If it is illegal to use this chemical weapon in Montreal, I urge the comment poster to make a formal complaint against the police to City Hall as soon as possible. Firing chemical weapons in densely populated neighbourhoods puts citizens at risk, and hence should be totally illegal. In this case, the weapons were fired arbitrarily. Had the police simply allowed the march to proceed there would have been no skirmish - or chemical attack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not appreciate any insinuation that a &#8220;lie&#8221; is at work here regarding police weaponry. Not only did I personally witness the gas-attack, but the Direct Impact shell is a well-documented police weapon that activists do not have access to:</p>
<p>The 40MM Direct Impact round is a “point of aim, point of impact” direct fire round that is most commonly used by tactical teams in situations where maximum deliverable energy is desired for the incapacitation of an aggressive, non-compliant subject.</p>
<p>The Direct Impact round is intended for direct fire deployment. The operator should be adequately trained in the use of Specialty Impact Munitions and have a thorough understanding of the round and considerations for selecting shot placement such as level of threat, target distance, size, and clothing.</p>
<p>The Direct Impact round will prove most successful for incapacitation when used within its optimal energy range of approximately 10-75 feet, although it may be used in situations from 5 to 120 feet. The optimal zone offers the necessary energy and accuracy to target the large muscle groups of the buttocks, thigh, and even the knees of the subject. These areas provide sufficient pain stimulus, while greatly reducing serious or life threatening injuries. However, the size and weight of this round makes it the safest of all choices for engaging the abdomen or upper torso of the subject.</p>
<p>The Direct Impact round can also deployed in crowd control situations to protect the riot line, cover or enhance chemical munitions, or targeting specific agitators and organizers of the crowd. When used in this fashion, it is primarily both a psychological deterrent and physiological distraction serving as a pain compliance device to either get the crowd (or subject) moving or keeping them at a designated distance.</p>
<p>Source: <a href="http://minnesotaindependent.com/7923/crowd-control-at-the-rnc-fifty-million-unanswered-questions" rel="nofollow">http://minnesotaindependent.com/7923/crowd-control-at-the-rnc-fifty-million-unanswered-questions</a> </p>
<p>If it is illegal to use this chemical weapon in Montreal, I urge the comment poster to make a formal complaint against the police to City Hall as soon as possible. Firing chemical weapons in densely populated neighbourhoods puts citizens at risk, and hence should be totally illegal. In this case, the weapons were fired arbitrarily. Had the police simply allowed the march to proceed there would have been no skirmish &#8211; or chemical attack.</p>
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